As transgender people in Canada and some American states — including Kentucky, Florida, Minnesota, Texas — fight what they feel are transphobic “bathroom” legislation proposals that would force trans women to use some men’s sex-segregated facilities and trans men to use some women’s facilities, the nudism/naturism community may be wondering what the fuss is all about.
After all, many of us see nudism/naturism as asexual, and that belief extends into many areas of our textile lives — including, I would think, the use of public washrooms.
I imagine that many, if not most people who embrace nudism/naturism would support gender-neutral — or mixed — public washrooms with individual private stalls, perhaps with a urinals section walled off from main view.
When I attend swim events with my social nudism group in Ottawa, all the men and women undress and dress in the same locker room and use the same washroom. Nobody thinks twice about it — and we’re stark naked.
The transgender “bathroom” issue doesn’t involve nudism at all; it’s about fully clothed people. Do you feel the issue is rooted, to some degree, in a textile-obsessed world, with all its related body hangups?
I hope to write a post for my Gazette blog on the subject, and would like to hear opinions from some of the many nudists/naturists following here. I would want to use some of your quotes in the Gazette blog item.
What say you, from a nudism/naturism point of view? Can society learn from naturists on this issue?
— Jillian
Jillian Page 
Unfortunately, it’s a battle against small-minded people who do not understand what transgenderism is all about. Whenever the topic of transgender people comes up in online news articles, you will find foolish people making comments like, “If it has a penis, it’s a man! Simple fact!” Or this one that I actually found once, “This whole transgender thing is just a new way for peeping Toms to get off by using the ladies room.” Sadly, the people who make the rules are either part of this uninformed lot, or they will claim they are pandering to the needs of the majority who don’t want someone who they perceive as a man to enter the ladies room.
And is all sounds familiar, doesn’t it? A century ago the majority of people didn’t want to see a black person in a “white person’s” public bathroom.
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Brad, are you a nudist/naturist? If so, do you think people concerned about the bathroom issue could learn something from naturists?
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I believe so, except that these small-minded people I refer to think we’re pretty strange too!
So far my naturist experience has been almost entirely the local beach near Halifax. There is a naturist club here, but they won’t let me join unless a woman joins with me. Anyway, years ago, they did allow me to go to one swim at an indoor pool just to meet me. I arrived late, and took my clothes off in the men’s changing room. I got to meet everyone, though some of them I knew from the beach. Then our time was up and an odd thing occurred. All the men used the men’s room and the women used the women’s room to dress! One of the men even admitted to me that it was amusing, but that they always did that.
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Interesting that the group still used sex-segregated facilities but mixed together at the swim.
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We honestly haven’t paid much attention to this issue. It seems to us if a person has successfully transgender-ed to the opposite sex then that is the sex where they would use the bathroom. After all that was their desire, to be come one of the opposite sex. We are assuming here that they have had sex change surgery.
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Not all trans people have sex-reassignment surgery. Some retain their parts they were born with. The rule of thumb in most places is that transgender people use the facilities that match their gender identity and presentation.
I would think that naturists wouldn’t care about a person’s private parts, because certainly in social nudism settings, those parts are totally irrelevant. So, I’m wondering why those parts would be relevant in washrooms where everyone is dressed.
Thoughts?
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Have you heard of the famous Lady-Boys of Thailand(Bangkok)? I wonder how they deal with this there? I don’t know? Good Q
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That is a good question . . . I will look into it.
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We should simply have common bathrooms. None of this should be an issue.
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Do you think the bathroom issue is rooted in the textile mentality at all?
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imo, the “bigger” problem will be in Education at the Primary & Secondary levels at addressing these issues. After all this is where much of socialization occurs. That’s the ‘bingo’
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I think it is much more rooted in gender segregation since it is necessary to keep men and women apart so that women can be exploited more effectively.
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“Do you think the bathroom issue is rooted in the textile mentality at all?”
No, it comes from the tiny little minds of Old, Right-Wingnuts who hate anything that isn’t like them. I feel bad for the unmodified trans person and wish they didn’t have to suffer this kind of discrimination. It is no different from the “Whites Only” facilities so common in the racist south USA. (Still).
Has anyone ever noticed that it’s only an issue in the ladies room? I’ve been to crowded events where during a break there is a line at both restrooms. There are invariably a few girls in the men’s line (all younger and smarter than the old folk) because the line moves faster and the guys rarely use the stalls. I have never heard a negative comment from the guys in the line.
I was in France last year and discovered two things. Gas stations are extremely rare and most public restrooms are coin or attendant operated. At the Bordeaux train station there was a woman attendant inside the men’s restroom. To the French, this is completely normal. But to the tiny-minded old-farts on the right wing who have no concept of MYOB, this will never happen in the USA.
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Well said, Steve. Thank you.
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Wonder what’s like in Germany? Or Scandanavia?(to incl. Netherlands,Denmark) Ditto JP to your Comment
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Reblogged this on Naturist Holidays in Europe.
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ALOHA:……. when i lived at the ranch/commune in oregon (rajneeshpuram), we had 20 people living in 10 bedroom houses, with a bathroom on the upper level and one on the lower level….. it was normal to go into a bathroom to shower and have different people brushing their teeth or on toilets and no one seemed to give it a thought who was where… or what they wear or did not wear….. it was a wonderful, refreshing, opened community with none of these hangups.
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Sounds like a great place. Very nice!
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I’m not so sure about the politics and racism arguments here. I think this issue is based in our fears of the bogeyman, rapist, peeping tom. I think that many women are fearful of being vulnerable while their pants are down (or skirts are up). They feel that the loo is their ‘safe haven’ from men. They can talk freely, fix their make-up/hair without being on guard. Having a ‘man’ in the loo with them is threatening regardless of ‘his’ identity. Similarly, men feel no such threat, indeed, are tittilated at the thought of a ‘woman’ in their bathroom. We don’t talk much, we get our work done, and we get out. No socializing.
Nudists understand that clothes are an artifice. We can say, “Well, in Europe it is this way…” But Europe is not North America. We need to protect our children from the ‘bad man’. Just look at the trouble the Virginia parents got into for letting their kids walk home from school. Naturists are still parents, and many still want to protect them while they are in the ‘textile world’. Inside the walls or fences of the naturist environs, we can be who we are, but the minute we leave….
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Good points, Tim. Thanks.
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At Valley View Hot Springs in Colorado–very much a naturist venue–all the bathrooms are mixed gender with private toilet stalls and more-or-less public urinals for men. None of the regulars give it a second thought. We do indeed wonder what all the fuss is about. After all, most public restrooms have all-private stalls anyway!
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I have visited a few naturist/nudist clubs that have gender-specific washrooms. It seems odd. In one case, they said it was a local bylaw. The funniest version was Glen Echo (now closed) where the washroom on the sportsfield had a door for men and one for women but you ended up at opposite ends of the same room. Bare Oaks only has unisex washrooms.
In general, I don’t understand why we have separate washrooms anyway – even in the textile world. After all, you’re in a stall when you do your business anyway.
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Thanks, Stephane. I’m adding this to the Gazette post I did on the subject.
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Hi Jillian, my naturist club has a unisex washroom containing a urinal and two private stalls along with a shower area (3 showerheads in a large clean tiled room). First timers find it strange, but it doesn’t take long to get used to it. Doing your business in a stall with someone of the other gender sitting beside you (you peek at their footwear under the wall to figure out gender!) can be a bit weird, and certainly can’t be explained to anyone who isn’t a nudist, but you get used to it. It’s the most comfortable “public” washroom I use on a regular basis.
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Clubs I have been to have segregated rest rooms, probably required by local building codes. Those that don’t are probably in more remote areas where building codes are not an issue. Interesting thou is that the segregation is religiously adhered to, even though there is no enforcement of the policy. Probably out of convention not conviction. The same clubs all have outside showers with soap and shampoo near the swimming pool.
At textile nightclubs and probably nudist as well, segregation in restrooms is desirable for social and preening reasons having nothing to do with excretion.
In many venues like sports, stores etc., if unisex restrooms were legal and well laid out I think there would be little resistance from the public. Unfortunately, they would require more monitoring because the world being what it is it would also bring on sexual attacks in some areas.
I do not think our attitude or use of restrooms is related to our being textile ot nudist.
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