I’m not sure why so many Canadians seem willing to give the bad guys — ISIS and others — the advantage. I suppose we have blind faith in our military, police and intelligence forces, that they will protect us from lone-wolf attacks by terrorists. The average citizen doesn’t need to bear arms, right?
Reality check: our security forces just can’t do it all. We’ve seen one unarmed soldier in Ottawa, just steps away from the Parliament buildings at the National War Memorial, murdered in cold blood by an ISIS sympathizer from Quebec. We’ve seen another unarmed military person murdered in cold blood by another deranged ISIS sympathizer in Quebec. And we are hearing more and more stories about Canadians making their way to Syria, or trying to make their way to Syria, to join the terrorist group.
No doubt, the cases we are hearing about are only the proverbial tip of the iceberg.
The sad reality is, if a terrorist starts opening fire in a public setting, none of the bystanders will be able to stop the individual. Even in the United States, where citizens are allowed to bear arms in most places (I think), many people do not carry them. Hence, murderers who slaughtered people in movie theatres and schools and other settings there went unchallenged.
I don’t think we should all have the right to bear arms; I think it should be mandatory in this age of international terrorism. We should all be ready to defend our villages and cities against the terrorists who will resort to any means to wipe us out.
Make no mistake about it: ISIS and other groups like them mean to kill everyone in the West, and to destroy civilization as we know it.
Everybody needs to be on guard, and needs to be prepared to fight.
— Jillian
Jillian Page 
The simple fact is that the people that would murder you aren’t going to ever give you the chance to use your weapon to protect yourself unless you go about all your daily business with the weapon drawn and cocked which is what they will do when they decide to murder you.
That’s what the police in the US already do and there they murder more unarmed or otherwise low-risk citizens in a month than Canadians do in their entirety in a whole year. Is that what you really want? Do you really want to walk around all the time wondering whether your fellow citizen is going to accidentally kill you or because he took umbrage at the fact you looked sideways at him? I lived in that sort of society for about twenty years and I can tell you that I would not thank you for it.
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Indeed. I hope our moderator here is just acting as a provocatrice because if we go this route we end up no better than IS. And this is what IS wants as an objective. Fear is a very potent force in the war games. However, I think a nuke in one of their strongholds would certainly go a long way towards cauterizing the malignancy. They want the “wrath of allah” so be it. F**k the pea-shooter sh*t }D
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As far as I know, we still kill one another on the roads in far greater numbers, even in the US, yet we all seem content to rely on puny seat belts and air bags in order to prevent ourselves getting killed. Personally, I would like to be able to take to the roads in a surplus Abrams or Chieftain battle tank to even the odds and then some, even against reckless juggernaut drivers. What’s the chance, I wonder, I’ll be allowed to?
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hey, haven’t you heard? Some guy in the lower 48 did try to do it all ready. Didn’t get too far though as they put out several that put a stop to that pretty quick. Me, I’d look into some drones. They’re really the item now and for the future. Better stock up on them SAMs as a deterrent %D
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I was trying to start a discussion on gun control . . .I knew that many would disagree with me. But I have to say, I would feel a lot safer carrying a gun.
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Jillian – the terrorists have won in your case. You are afraid beyond rationality – that was their goal. If you are scared of them, and that was their goal. They have won.
In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour.
And you want to bring this insanity to Canada because of ONE terrorist action?
THREE DEATHS AN HOUR
Not even ISIS can kill that many Americans.
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You are right. I am afraid. I think I would feel safer if I could carry a gun. I hate to say it, but it’s true.
The post was meant to start a discussion on gun control. I knew many would disagree with me, but I also know many do agree with me. So, let’s see where the discussion goes.
Cheers
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oh my. You seemed to have stirred up quite a hornet’s nest with this one! Luckily most of us are not yahoos or Die Hard Yippee Ki Yays. But it goes to show how easy it is to go “bang-bang you’re dead” %|
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The idea was to start a discussion, keeping ISIS in mind.
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I live in Idaho where college students can now carry concealed weapons. This way the Good Guys With Guns can stop the Bad Guys With Guns. But no one can tell me how you tell them apart! If I see someone with a gun peeking out of their jacket should I try to find a good guy with a gun to shoot them? Or should I hide behind them because they will save me from the Bad Guy? Or should I get away from them because they are far more likely to drop it and shoot their own toes or fingers off.
Our legislators in the Statehouse are allowed to carry concealed weapons, but visitors cannot. That doesn’t seem fair if the political discussion gets heated and it becomes clear that one of us is a Bad Guy! How would we resolve it? Discourse? Pah, that’s not the Idaho way! We did have an incident where a toddler got into his Mom’s purse in the shopping cart in Walmart and summarily judged her to be a Bad Guy. Since she had kept her gun in her purse, and not on her person, she had no way to defend herself! Obviously she needed more than one gun. Or the child needed his own gun. It’s very confusing how many guns are needed!!!
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I remember hearing about the Walmart shooting. Sad . . .
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Mutatis mutandis:
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I’m thinking there is probably a Dylan song for many occasions . . . but I wonder what he might sing about ISIS. Funny how the troubadours of the ’60s aren’t singing about peace and love anymore. Do you think they might suggest we hold a love-in in Syria?
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So isn’t it a good thing that President Obama didn’t send in sophisticated weapons to the rebels in Syria fighting Assad because many of those rebels were ISIL. And now Iran + Russia are supplying him. And Obama has admitted the biggest failure he has faced is not getting “stricter” gun control and weakening the NRAs power over Congress on the home front. Let us keep sight of the forest for the trees shall we! Before advocating shootouts at High Noon. And Like another Poster has mentioned if you are packing a firearm you’re more likely to get taken out by your friendly policeman/woman then you are by a terrorist. Or maybe your significant others. But hey, “guns don’t kill people. People kill people”. We need an alien invasion or plague that doesn’t discriminate and is a equal opportunity killer of humans. And do you think they’ll be afraid of your cap-gun then? Prodding the discussion along %P
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Well, so far, only one person (besides me) thinks we should all have the right to bear arms. Yet the last time I wrote about this, many other people said they agreed. So, has there been a shift in sentiment?
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The “good guy with a gun” thing is a myth. The US is the most armed civilized country in the world, yet we see THREE GUN DEATHS AN HOUR. One every twenty minutes of every day. How many of the victims had a handgun? Lot of good it did if it were in a nightstand, purse, car, even a holster – the bad guy isn’t going to pause to let you have a fair fight.
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With you here Steve. 13K – 15K gun deaths a year is mind blowing. IS is very stupid. They should just concentrate on their own backyard. If they wait long enough USA will do it to themselves. Empire falls from within not external forces %O
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Gun control laws only keep guns out of the hands of law abiding people. Carrying a gun legally in the States requires a background check and a license. Constant training in the law and gun handling ability is practiced by most legal carriers. Legal carriers have not been shooting people illegally. Police are not charged with protecting us from criminals. They are charged with apprehending the criminal after he has injured us. No one is asking you to carry a gun, please don’t ask me not to carry one. If a criminal is breaking into your house, would you feel safer with a gun or a phone in your hand. I vote for both. The difference might be who goes to the hospital when the ambulance shows up.
I believe in Switzerland they have mandatory military service for every citizen. And that they are required to keep their service weapons at home at the ready when their service is completed. My facts may not be completely accurate but statistics will show that Switzerland is a pretty safe place to live.
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I agree. I think every citizen should be trained how to use handguns and when to use them. But I feel we should be allowed to carry them in our purses and such.
I have a can of bear spray, because I live in the forest. But I would use it on a home intruder, if I had to.
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That must mean that US is a nation of criminals. Last Statistics indicate a gun for every man, woman, child in the country %@
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Unfortunately not just criminals but a gang culture in some cities. Regardless, these people all have guns if they want them. I’m sure this is the case in Canada as well. Canada is fortunate that it avoided much of the violent history of the US. I also believe cold weather keeps out many undesirable elements of society. I also think a society that justifies owning guns for protection against wild animals should allow guns for protection against violent criminals.
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I believe it’s called “mob” rule. And in Canada it’s just a question of scale because as a famous Canadian PM said: “Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant.No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt”. And lately there’s a lot of grunting+twitching going on! %O
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I appreciate your dislike of the US. Don’t let it cloud your vision. All democracies are “mob” ruled. The US used to be a Republic but has morphed into “mob” rule since.
Most US States still trust our fellow citizens to carry guns. I see that as a positive. Canada apparently does not trust its citizens to carry guns. States and cities that allow ‘legal carry’ actually have a lower crime rate. The mass murders you have read about all occurred in theaters and schools etc. where ‘legal carry’ is not allowed.
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Not in Japan. Which has the lowest crime rate in the world. No legal-carry there. And at one time it was one of the most violent countries the world has ever known. oh yeah, if you’re not counting the suicide rate
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Personally, I love the U.S., and I wish I was an American citizen. The U.S. stands up for so many people in this world, sacrificing its young men and women. It is a great citizen of the world, despite its own internal issues — which all countries have.
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Handguns are dangerous to women – period. I did a really quick look and found that 94 percent of female victims (1,509 out of 1,601) were murdered by a male they knew. While there are a number of items in the home that can and have been used to kill, handguns in the home just makes it so much easier for one partner to kill the other and it’s normally the woman who ends up dead. Some women have argued that having a handgun in the home makes the feel safer. Safer from whom?
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Maybe we should outlaw knives and rat poison as well.
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It is one thing to kill a sentient creature with a knife, etc, up-close and personal. Entirely another with a gun. Much more effective; and while not maybe complete it does improve your chances of succeeding remarkably well.That’s why you want one. And others willing to sell you them
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OK, so let’s just say for a moment we’re all carrying guns on the offchance we’ll be able to recognise a terrorist with a gun and shoot them first. They’ll just adopt other means of getting at us. Suicide vests on the underground (subway) or on a packed commuter bus. Or anywhere, really. They might try to hijack an aeroplane 9/11-style. Either the citizen guns will be useless because the airlines won’t let you carry them, or you will be carrying them and there’ll be a gunfight in the cabin which will just bring the plane down anyway.
Jillian, you wanted a debate about gun control. From the sound of it Canada already has gun control, and it works. The UK and most of Europe has gun control, and it works. The US version of gun control is out of control, and the results have been rehearsed several times here.
The US gun advocates say that “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. True, but the easiest way for people to kill people is with guns, particularly the assault rifles apparently favoured by American gun nuts. The US has shown that once guns cease to be controlled there’s no going back – there are too many weapons on the loose in America to be cancelled simply by legislation.
The terrorists want to destroy our way of life, by violence if necessary. Along the way there will be casualties, at home and abroad. Let guns off the leash as you suggest, and you will have many more (home grown, innocent) casualties, and you will not feel safer carrying a weapon, you’ll have real reason to feel fear.
peter
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The problem, as I see it, is that criminals and terrorists have guns, illegal though they may be. I mean, if I really wanted to, I could buy an illegal handgun. But if I want to play by the rules, I can’t own one and carry it with me at all times — while aforementioned criminals and terrorists have them.
Yes, I wanted a discussion on this subject, and I think we have a good one going on. I framed my original post against the terrorism that is ISIS, which is redefining everything. They encourage lone wolves to strike in any way they can against virtually anyone, so if one of them starts firing on a busy street in a Canadian city, the vast majority of pedestrians won’t be able to fire back.
We law-abiding citizens need to be able to protect ourselves . . .
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” the terrorism that is ISIS, which is redefining everything”
ISIS is not redefining anything – you are.
Your irrational fear is making you afraid and your fear is overriding sanity.
So, you have a gun in a pocketbook and you think you see a terrorist shooting people. Or is it a plainclothes policeman taking down a bad guy? So, while normal people are diving for cover, You, our hero, fumbles for your weapon and you point it at the “terrorist”. Now, you are a target. A threat. – and trust me, the terrorist has a lot more practice shooting than you. You shoot first. And most likely miss – this isn’t a movie and you have a bit more adrenaline pumping than when on the practice range. Who is that beyond your “terrorist”? A mom shielding her child? Then other police arrive and see someone shooting a gun.
You’re nuts if you think a gun makes you any safer.
Oh, if you think ISIS is targeting you, you’re even more delusional. Terrorists want to scare a lot of people. You are not what would be called a “High Profile” target. You alone would not make more than the local news. If you were somehow killed by an agent from ISIS, your obituary would read “collateral damage”.
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Well, that is somewhat reassuring.
I’m reading all the comments here . . .
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There is no reason to fear gun violence from fellow law abiding citizens. Criminals will have guns. That is why I don’t trust a government that bans guns. I don’t trust a government that does not trust it’s own citizens.
The idea that allowing law abiding citizens to own guns will increase crime is a lie. But it must be followed up with training in the law and gun usage, storage, safety etc. Owning a gun is also a responsibility, similar to driving a car that can kill people. Yes, accidents can happen, will you give up your car? Please don’t ask me to give up my gun.
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According to the Washington Post, 461 people have been shot and killed by an on-duty officer so far this year in the U.S. In June alone, cops killed 75 people.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don’t most cops in England not carry a gun?
How many suspects do they kill?
Guns are too easy and convenient. Point, click, shoot. Problem solved.
Any other method of killing requires deliberate action or forethought, providing a fraction of time to think. It removes the quick, impulsive solution.
In another article in the Washington Post: For every homicide by a “good guy with a gun” in 2012, there were 34 criminal homicides, 78 gun suicides and two accidental gun deaths”. Of those two accidental deaths, one of them was a child. (The FBI defines “justifiable homicide” as the killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen.)
From the American Journal of Epidemiology: “Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home.” They conclude that: “Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.”
During the time that elapsed between the time I decided to write this comment and my actually pushing the button to publish it, two people were killed by a gun in the U.S. We’re so blasé about the carnage that other than local news, this is merely a statistic.
You would have to be mad to want Canada to join this madness.
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“Fool me once, shame on…shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”[11] — Nashville, Tennessee; September 17, 2002. But madness is not the exclusive property of the USA. It’s being neighbourly %O
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About giving people more choice to make decisions, absolutely. Mandatory, I don’t think it’s a good idea. We don’t live in communism. But sending a message that we are all responsible four our own individual AND common defence is a good thing.
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Good point. Mandatory is a bit much. “Strongly encouraged” is a better choice of words, I think.
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This discussion has actually gone a bit astray because of so many peoples fear of guns. The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution which guaranteed the right to own and carry guns had nothing to do with crime. It had everything to do with tyranny. Fear of government, our own and others. They had just experienced a revolution with an authoritarian government. They realized that promoting the ownership of guns was the best protection citizens had against tyranny.
Jillian, who now sees tyranny threatening her way of life, realizes she lives in a society that has unwittingly banned guns.
People who fear guns know little about them and have probably not used them. Government should promote education of guns and personal protection, but of course they don’t. They discourage or ban it, including the US. A well armed population scares governments because it checks their power.
ISIS is overrunning and enslaving unarmed populations. Their major tool is terror. How far would they have come if all the countries in the middle east had citizens armed and trained in self defense. It would also be helpful to have community armories with military equipment.
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Cat among the pigeons. Like Iran? Or if you wish to extrapolate hypothetically the rest of > 5B on our planet? Think of nations Like India and of course China. N. Korea? Time to leave the building I would think. Next stop Mars. We’re trying. Hallowe’en time soon %O
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Thermonuclear warfare is not the topic of this discussion. Corrupt, ideological, unchecked political leaders are far more dangerous than guns. It starts with dumbed down voters. I am including all our western democracy leaders in that description.
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Typical right-wing tactic If you don’t like the way the discussion is going, change the subject.
What the gun nuts conveniently ignore is that more guns = more gun deaths.
Then they trot out Switzerland as a shining example of their simple-minded equation, also conveniently forgetting to mention that private possession of ammunition is illegal in Switzerland.
Up until, I think, 1972, everyone who served in the Swiss military took their weapons and 500 rounds of ammunition home after their active duty service. The ammunition was in a sealed container and occasionally audited by the military. This is the backbone of the Swiss Militia. After 1972 the ammunition was to be stored in either a military barracks or civilian gun range. But not at home. The militia, if called up, report to a military barracks with their government issued weapon and if the mission requires armament, they are issued ammunition then.
Just remember this statistic: THREE DEATHS AN HOUR.
Anyone who wants to follow the US down this insane Briar Patch should not be surprised when the murder rate and deaths by guns escalate. When the first child is killed by an accident from a gun found in a home, will you tell the parents that this was your idea? Or will you do like the gun nuts in the US do and blame the parents?
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In last 10 years in the USA, guns per capita have been increasing, but violent crime per capita decreasing, including murder. Same in Canada.
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Paul said: “In last 10 years in the USA, guns per capita have been increasing, but violent crime per capita decreasing, including murder. Same in Canada.”
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_10.pdf
“In 2005, 30,694 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States.”
That is 3.503 deaths per hour in 2005. GREAT IMPROVEMENT! How could the bleeding heart lefties miss this fantastic decline in gun deaths? A substantial reduction from 3.5 deaths by gun per hour in 2005 to 3 deaths by gun per hour today. At this rate we will see it drop to two deaths per hour in six years. The 180,000 fatalities in the meantime should be greatly relieved that their risk of death by gun has dropped so low.
There are no statistics that can challenge the simple equation: more guns = more deaths.
THREE DEATHS PER HOUR. No other country not currently at war comes close to the carnage the United states enjoys. We don’t need ISIS, we have the second amendment.
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“How far would they have come if all the countries in the middle east had citizens armed and trained in self defense. ”
Had the Bush/Cheney war profiteers not invaded Iraq, there would be no ISIS.
Another minor detail that the right-wing likes to ignore.
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News for you Steve. They have no idea they are Right-wingnuts. They think they are “soldiers of god” fighting Islam. They can’t see that bearing arms makes them no different than IS. Feeds right into IS hysteria. Maybe IS is smart after all. re: get the job done aka 5th Column
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Calm down Steve. I know of no one in Canada or the US who is trying to put guns in your house or hands. And I respect your right to hate guns.
Please respect that there are others who believe evil does exist and prefer to be able to defend themselves against it.
I sincerely hope you never find yourself in a situation where the ability to defend yourself or your family with a weapon would have saved a life. It never happens to most people.
There are others with a different mindset who pose no threat to you. Their possession of a gun at the ready gives them peace of mind just as no guns in your household gives you peace of mind. I can live with that.
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More guns = more gun deaths.
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Yes, having a handgun would give me peace of mind. I might never have to use it.
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The odds of it being used against you will go up as well.
From a study by the Annals of Internal Medicine (http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1814426): “…the study found that women with access to firearms become homicide victims at significantly higher rates than men.”
Many of these deaths occur in the home, at the hands of a male partner. In a study in the Journal of Trauma, A.L. Kellermann, director of the RAND Institute of health, and his coauthor J.A. Mercy concluded: “More than twice as many women are killed with a gun used by their husbands or intimate acquaintances than are murdered by strangers using guns, knives, or any other means.”
The National Study of Intimate Partner Homicide determined that in 2004 48.1% of the victims of gun violence were the owner of the gun. The same study also interviewed women at abuse shelters and determined said: “In fact, not a single study to date has shown that the risk of any crime including burglary, robbery, home invasion, or spousal abuse against a female is decreased through gun ownership. Though there are examples of women using a gun to defend themselves, they are few and far between, and not statistically significant.”
No intelligent person would ever own a gun.
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That’s right Steve, all those others people in the world should never be feared. I will leave it to someone else to protect me. It is our family and loved ones we need to fear more. That’s intelligent.
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Very good points here.
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Indeed x99. Your gun is going to keep you safe from this? http://tinyurl.com/prjsj9a It’s happening every 5min now as Steve has “pointed” out. No matter if you’re packing. “Easy”(Walmart off-theshelf) access to guns just makes it “so easy”. Rather put several hurdles in the way; for “law-abiding” citizens
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If anyone is interested in the history of gun control in Canada, there’s a book that is very well researched called Arming and Disarming: A History of Gun Control in Canada. Although the author’s conclusion is questionable, the amount of historical research is excellent.
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Bang bang. We’re dead. Like I said: ISIS is not the problem. We are http://tinyurl.com/pgf2ply I remember being in the US as a kid – a long time ago – and hearing “normal” American tourists discussing what kind of gun they owned and bragging about it. It really frightened me. I knew something was wrong then, and something is wrong now! JP you’re right. Nothing much has changed. But I don’t want that here. Do you? Because this is what is going to happen if we all are allowed to pack. Want to move to US. By all means. But better have a lot of $$ to live in a gated community. Good ISIS propaganda. Blackhood giggling uncontrollably as he does a vid-clip on mass self-inflicted killing in the US. Allahu Akbar! %(
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